Jan-Maat's Reviews > Thinking, Fast and Slow
Thinking, Fast and Slow
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by
This book had me laughing and smiling, more than many a book described in its blurb as side-splittingly funny or something similar because I recognised the cognitive disillusions described in this book as my own and in any case I am the kind of person who if they fall into a good mood wonders if it's due to the pint and the pie that was eaten earlier.
In my case the preacher wasn't talking to the choir, but I had been to the church before and enjoyed the services. It doesn't set out to be a new book full of new discoveries. It's a comfortable round up of research, investigations and thought, polished off with a couple of Kahneman's early articles as appendices. If you've read The Halo Effect ... and the Eight Other Business Delusions That Deceive Managers(which puts some of these cogitative delusions in a business context, it has an excellent anecdote about the failure of a Lego product), or something along those lines you'll be familiar with some of the ideas here.
By now I'm quite comfortable accepting that I am not rational and that other people aren't either and that statistical thinking is alien to probably to almost everybody and Kahneman's book happily confirms my opinion. And few things make us as happy as having our own biases confirmed to us.
There are however a couple of problems. Firstly there are some people who apparently are wedded to the notion that people are entirely rational. They either will not read this book, read and reject it or indeed read it, accept it's findings but mentally note them as curious aberrations that don't affect their belief - this is discussed in the book.
More seriously society is organised on the tacit assumption that we are not only capable of being rational but will put the effort into doing so when required. Unfortunately studies demonstrating the effect of meals on Judges reviewing parole cases (like the state pawn broker in Down and out in Paris and London they are more lenient after lunch and harsher beforehand and once they get hungry again) or voter behaviour which turns out to be influenced by where the polling booth is located. This makes me wonder. My polling station used to be in the Adult Education Centre, now that's been closed down, if the polling centre was moved to the police station would my voting habits transform into those of a Fishin', Huntin' and Floggin' Tory who froths at the mouth hearing the words 'illegal immigrants'? Maybe I need a snack.
Much in the book is useful, 90% fat free does sound better than 10% fat, there's a lot to be learnt here in how to describe or state a problem to push people towards certain responses by framing or anchoring the information you give. Of course this happens to us all the time as it is.
One of my favourite of Kahneman's examples comes from when he was working with Israeli flight instructors. They were convinced that shouting and swearing at trainee pilots was the best method of improving their performance - experience proved it - when a pilot under performed they swore at him and on the next attempt the trainee would do better. Plainly shouting works. Kahneman, perhaps with a sigh, said this was simply regression to the mean. After poor performance what ever they did would be followed by improved performance, swearing and shouting have no magic power. To demonstrate he had the instructors throw balls of paper over their shoulder's into a waste paper bin and tracked the results on a handy black board showing that performance varied up and down irrespective of swearing. Still I wonder if returning to work the instructors developed an enlightened instruction method or if they rapidly regressed to the mean and shouted and swore again.
I used to think that politicians answered a different question to the one given by the interviewer in an attempt to be evasive. Post Kahneman I wonder if this is just the natural tendency of the brain to substitute an easier question for a harder one. Who knows.
In my case the preacher wasn't talking to the choir, but I had been to the church before and enjoyed the services. It doesn't set out to be a new book full of new discoveries. It's a comfortable round up of research, investigations and thought, polished off with a couple of Kahneman's early articles as appendices. If you've read The Halo Effect ... and the Eight Other Business Delusions That Deceive Managers(which puts some of these cogitative delusions in a business context, it has an excellent anecdote about the failure of a Lego product), or something along those lines you'll be familiar with some of the ideas here.
By now I'm quite comfortable accepting that I am not rational and that other people aren't either and that statistical thinking is alien to probably to almost everybody and Kahneman's book happily confirms my opinion. And few things make us as happy as having our own biases confirmed to us.
There are however a couple of problems. Firstly there are some people who apparently are wedded to the notion that people are entirely rational. They either will not read this book, read and reject it or indeed read it, accept it's findings but mentally note them as curious aberrations that don't affect their belief - this is discussed in the book.
More seriously society is organised on the tacit assumption that we are not only capable of being rational but will put the effort into doing so when required. Unfortunately studies demonstrating the effect of meals on Judges reviewing parole cases (like the state pawn broker in Down and out in Paris and London they are more lenient after lunch and harsher beforehand and once they get hungry again) or voter behaviour which turns out to be influenced by where the polling booth is located. This makes me wonder. My polling station used to be in the Adult Education Centre, now that's been closed down, if the polling centre was moved to the police station would my voting habits transform into those of a Fishin', Huntin' and Floggin' Tory who froths at the mouth hearing the words 'illegal immigrants'? Maybe I need a snack.
Much in the book is useful, 90% fat free does sound better than 10% fat, there's a lot to be learnt here in how to describe or state a problem to push people towards certain responses by framing or anchoring the information you give. Of course this happens to us all the time as it is.
One of my favourite of Kahneman's examples comes from when he was working with Israeli flight instructors. They were convinced that shouting and swearing at trainee pilots was the best method of improving their performance - experience proved it - when a pilot under performed they swore at him and on the next attempt the trainee would do better. Plainly shouting works. Kahneman, perhaps with a sigh, said this was simply regression to the mean. After poor performance what ever they did would be followed by improved performance, swearing and shouting have no magic power. To demonstrate he had the instructors throw balls of paper over their shoulder's into a waste paper bin and tracked the results on a handy black board showing that performance varied up and down irrespective of swearing. Still I wonder if returning to work the instructors developed an enlightened instruction method or if they rapidly regressed to the mean and shouted and swore again.
I used to think that politicians answered a different question to the one given by the interviewer in an attempt to be evasive. Post Kahneman I wonder if this is just the natural tendency of the brain to substitute an easier question for a harder one. Who knows.
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Reading Progress
August 16, 2012
– Shelved
August 18, 2012
–
Started Reading
August 20, 2012
–
11.62%
""speaking of priming:
The world makes much less sense than you think. The coherence comes mostly from the way your mind works.
They were primed to find flaws, and this is exactly what they found.
I made myself smile and I'm actually feeling better!""
page
58
The world makes much less sense than you think. The coherence comes mostly from the way your mind works.
They were primed to find flaws, and this is exactly what they found.
I made myself smile and I'm actually feeling better!""
August 20, 2012
–
17.64%
""Speaking of jumping to conclusions:
'They made that big decision on the basis of a good report from one consultant. WYSIATI-what you see is all there is. They did not seem to realize how little information they had'
'They don't want information that might spoil their story. WYSIATI'.""
page
88
'They made that big decision on the basis of a good report from one consultant. WYSIATI-what you see is all there is. They did not seem to realize how little information they had'
'They don't want information that might spoil their story. WYSIATI'.""
August 25, 2012
–
36.87%
""She says experience has taught her that criticism is more effective than praise. What she doesn't understand is that it's all due to regression to the mean.""
page
184
August 26, 2012
–
43.69%
""...we cannot suppress the powerful intuition that what makes sense in hindsight today was predictable yesterday. The illusion that we understand the past fosters over confidence in our ability to predict the future""
page
218
August 29, 2012
–
50.9%
""We are making an additional investment because we do not want to admit failure. This is an instance of the sunk-cost fallacy.""
page
254
August 30, 2012
–
60.52%
""a single cockroach will completely wreck the appeal of a bowl of cherries, but a cherry will do nothing at all for a bowl of cockroaches...the negative trumps the positive in many ways, and loss aversion is one of many manifestations of a broader negativity dominance.""
page
302
August 31, 2012
–
77.15%
""You are thinking of your failed marriage entirely from the perspective of the remembering self. A divorce is like a symphony with a screeching sound at the end - the fact that it ended badly does not mean it was all bad.""
page
385
September 1, 2012
–
83.77%
""Decision makers are sometimes better able to imagine the voices of present gossipers and future critics than to hear the hesitant voice of their own doubts.""
page
418
September 1, 2012
–
84.97%
""the failure to understand the effect of regression leads one to overestimate the effectiveness of punishment and to underestimate the effectiveness of reward...by regression alone, therefore, behaviour is most likely to improve after punishment and most likely to deteriorate after reward. Consequently...one is most often rewarded for punishing others and most often punished for rewarding them.""
page
424
September 1, 2012
–
Finished Reading
Comments Showing 1-21 of 21 (21 new)
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Fionnuala
(new)
Mar 07, 2014 04:55PM
Had a pint and a pie earlier so don't know if I'm thinking fast or slow but the review and the updates still make a fair bit of sense...
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Fionnuala wrote: "Had a pint and a pie earlier so don't know if I'm thinking fast or slow but the review and the updates still make a fair bit of sense..."
glad to hear it!
glad to hear it!
Kalliope wrote: "There is an irrational need for thinking that we are rational."
often seems to be the case :)
often seems to be the case :)
Zanna wrote: "Oh marvellous review = )
If in doubt, have a snack."
If in doubt, feed somebody else a snack!
If in doubt, have a snack."
If in doubt, feed somebody else a snack!
Zanna wrote: "even better advice. good thing I've started 'baking' again."
Please advise in what ways 'baking' is to be distinguished from baking?
Please advise in what ways 'baking' is to be distinguished from baking?
This is the book I'm using - the recipes are all desserts and sweet snacks and cakes and puddings... but there is no actual baking = )
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1...
https://www.goodreads.com/book/show/1...
Zanna wrote: "This is the book I'm using - the recipes are all desserts and sweet snacks and cakes and puddings... but there is no actual baking = )"
Craziness. The smell of cake or bread baking in the oven is one of life's joys.
Craziness. The smell of cake or bread baking in the oven is one of life's joys.
Definitely no argument from me there - but many ingredients are more flavoursome and tasty (to say nothing of nutritionally useful) if they haven't been cooked or if they have been cooked at a very low temperature. Personally I don't like the taste of oils that have been heated to a high temperature, and my digestion goes a *lot* better if I avoid cooked starch, gluten & fat combinations... But to me this book isn't about restriction - just indulgence!
Jan-Maat's review said, "Firstly there are some people who apparently are wedded to the notion that people are entirely rational. They either will not read this book, read and reject it or indeed read it, accept it's findings but mentally note them as curious aberrations that don't affect their belief....
Yes, the topic "Can Psychology be Taught?" got me, too. It might as well be Socrates asking "Can philosophy be taught?" Kahneman does make me hopeful. He makes me think maybe it can. :)
Yes, the topic "Can Psychology be Taught?" got me, too. It might as well be Socrates asking "Can philosophy be taught?" Kahneman does make me hopeful. He makes me think maybe it can. :)
Wait a minute. I call the bait and switching topics in these comments unfair. You've all made me hungry. A pox in your thoughtful, witty souls.
Carol wrote: "Wait a minute. I call the bait and switching topics in these comments unfair. You've all made me hungry. A pox in your thoughtful, witty souls."
as the Doctor said - feed thyself
as the Doctor said - feed thyself
Here's the thing: neither Kahneman, nor any other philosopher, mathematically inclined or not, has been able to define definitively what they mean by rationality. At best it is a local and temporary convention. But no where and never is it possible to determine if people are acting rationally without the imposition of a criterion of rationality which cannot be verified as rational. So Kahneman has lots of great anecdotes but no general principle of interest or ...rationality.
Michael wrote: "Here's the thing: neither Kahneman, nor any other philosopher, mathematically inclined or not, has been able to define definitively what they mean by rationality. At best it is a local and temporar..."
well you've very probably put your finger on the heart of the matter there, arguing with a notion that isn't defined isn't going to get anyone very far
well you've very probably put your finger on the heart of the matter there, arguing with a notion that isn't defined isn't going to get anyone very far
Travelin wrote: "It hurts me, as one of your most dedicated followers, to see this positive review. Here is mine:
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...
I mainly considered his book manipulative, but the ..."
I am sorry that you are hurt, but at least you've put up a link to your own review
https://www.goodreads.com/review/show...
I mainly considered his book manipulative, but the ..."
I am sorry that you are hurt, but at least you've put up a link to your own review
Fergus wrote: "This is a great review, Jan-Maat. It’s perfect for a right-brained old guy like me!"
thanks, glad you enjoyed it
thanks, glad you enjoyed it
There's a lot to be learnt here in how to describe or state a problem to push people towards certain responses by framing or anchoring the information you give.
If I wouldn't know better, I'd suspect my son of sneakily having read this book instead of neutralising mini-zombies at night! (it has been lurking in some dusty corner here for years). If the book is as amusing as your review it sounds very much worth the time.
If I wouldn't know better, I'd suspect my son of sneakily having read this book instead of neutralising mini-zombies at night! (it has been lurking in some dusty corner here for years). If the book is as amusing as your review it sounds very much worth the time.
Ilse wrote: "There's a lot to be learnt here in how to describe or state a problem to push people towards certain responses by framing or anchoring the information you give.
If I wouldn't know better, I'd suspe..."
well it amused me anyhow, I make no guarantees for its ability to please others.
maybe one can learn many things from killing mini zombies?
If I wouldn't know better, I'd suspe..."
well it amused me anyhow, I make no guarantees for its ability to please others.
maybe one can learn many things from killing mini zombies?