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Robert Schneider's Reviews > Thinking, Fast and Slow
Thinking, Fast and Slow
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In the last few years two books took me FOREVER to get through. The first was Daniel Dennett's "Darwin's Dangerous Idea" and the second is Kahneman's "Thinking, Fast and Slow." What caused this? What do they have in common? Both books explain, in minute detail, simple concepts with immensely far-reaching implications, and both have been... after the slog... the most intellectually rewarding reading of my adult life.
Where to begin... I have a number of theories running around in my head, and occasionally I try to corral them on paper. I organize, sequence and interconnect them in a way that will prevent my reader from meaningfully widening their eyes, in an aside, while winding their finger around one ear... ("Cuckoo!") Good writing about complex topics is very, very difficult, and Kahneman has corraled 30+ years of science, his career and all he has learned into a perfectly arranged sequence that leads the reader into a wilderness... provisioning you in each chapter with the tools you'll need for the next part of the journey.
The second most striking effect on me is the number of times I said, "Yes... YES!!! this is what I've been saying!" In my case it has usually been some sort of "intuitive"(excuse me, Mr. Kahneman... I mean "System 1") recognition of a pattern in my observations about the way we think. In Kahneman's case those intuitions have been converted into theoretical propositions, each meticulously researched in well designed experiments. Clearly, this is at least one difference between me and a Nobel Prize winning researcher.
So why does this stuff matter? In the context of broader discussions of free will, intention, choice and control over the directions our lives take, this book can provide powerful insights that might currently be obscured by these "cognitive illusions" and the inherent limitations of "System 1/System 2" thinking.
Perhaps we're not as "free" in our decisions as we might like to think, if "priming" has such a stunningly reproducible effect. Perhaps we're not so determined, if activities that initially require "System 2" attention, can be turned into second-nature, "technical-expertise intuitions." I.e. learning and training MATTERS in our ability to detect and respond to events that... if untrained... might take advantage of our brain's inherent "blind spots" or weaknesses.
Perhaps childhood religious indoctrination is a very adept recognition of these mental tendencies/flaws, so profoundly (if intuitively/naively) expressed by Ignatius Loyola, founder of the Jesuit order, "Give me the boy until 7, I will give you the man." (paraphrased; forgive me)
Kahneman's discoveries and documentation of mental capacity and biases could form the basis of a "Mental Martial Arts" program: an alternative form of indoctrination, in which students are trained to understand their brains' weaknesses, and learn to take stances or engage in practices that eliminate or reduce the errors to which these weaknesses can lead.
This book will rearrange the way you think... about how you think.
Where to begin... I have a number of theories running around in my head, and occasionally I try to corral them on paper. I organize, sequence and interconnect them in a way that will prevent my reader from meaningfully widening their eyes, in an aside, while winding their finger around one ear... ("Cuckoo!") Good writing about complex topics is very, very difficult, and Kahneman has corraled 30+ years of science, his career and all he has learned into a perfectly arranged sequence that leads the reader into a wilderness... provisioning you in each chapter with the tools you'll need for the next part of the journey.
The second most striking effect on me is the number of times I said, "Yes... YES!!! this is what I've been saying!" In my case it has usually been some sort of "intuitive"(excuse me, Mr. Kahneman... I mean "System 1") recognition of a pattern in my observations about the way we think. In Kahneman's case those intuitions have been converted into theoretical propositions, each meticulously researched in well designed experiments. Clearly, this is at least one difference between me and a Nobel Prize winning researcher.
So why does this stuff matter? In the context of broader discussions of free will, intention, choice and control over the directions our lives take, this book can provide powerful insights that might currently be obscured by these "cognitive illusions" and the inherent limitations of "System 1/System 2" thinking.
Perhaps we're not as "free" in our decisions as we might like to think, if "priming" has such a stunningly reproducible effect. Perhaps we're not so determined, if activities that initially require "System 2" attention, can be turned into second-nature, "technical-expertise intuitions." I.e. learning and training MATTERS in our ability to detect and respond to events that... if untrained... might take advantage of our brain's inherent "blind spots" or weaknesses.
Perhaps childhood religious indoctrination is a very adept recognition of these mental tendencies/flaws, so profoundly (if intuitively/naively) expressed by Ignatius Loyola, founder of the Jesuit order, "Give me the boy until 7, I will give you the man." (paraphrased; forgive me)
Kahneman's discoveries and documentation of mental capacity and biases could form the basis of a "Mental Martial Arts" program: an alternative form of indoctrination, in which students are trained to understand their brains' weaknesses, and learn to take stances or engage in practices that eliminate or reduce the errors to which these weaknesses can lead.
This book will rearrange the way you think... about how you think.
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Reading Progress
January 13, 2012
–
Started Reading
January 13, 2012
– Shelved
January 13, 2012
– Shelved as:
science-of-mind
February 7, 2012
–
70.0%
February 20, 2012
–
Finished Reading
Comments Showing 1-50 of 66 (66 new)
Is this book talks about reason in philosophy?
"This book will rearrange the way you think... about how you think."Truer words have ne'er been spoken.
Yes, the book is a bit of a "slog", but only because it demands that the reader put some work into thinking about his propositions. The book is well worth the effort!
M. wrote: "Is this book talks about reason in philosophy?"No.
Dave wrote: "Mental martial arts - see center for applied rationality http://appliedrationality.org/"AWESOME!! Thanks, Dave!
Do know any classic book about reason?
M. wrote: "Do know any classic book about reason?"Sorry... none come to the top of my head. But then again, that's a pretty broad topic area.
I can recommend two books that deal with the "search for truth" and which discuss their methods:
One is "Zen and The Art of Motorcycle Maintenance" by Robert Pirsig. Very American centric, 1974 novel.. Heavy on philosophy, but also a literary book, not a treatise on Reason.
"Logicomix: An Epic Search for Truth". It's a "graphic novel" biography of Bertrand Russell's struggles with reason and mathematics and philosophy. A great read... see my review :-)
Good luck in your search.
Apart from all the good words and the learnings from the book ...Given the strengths and weaknesses of the system1 and system2 I think the learnings can be applied in the design of good products/services .
Awesome book and a terrific review. It trulyis amazing how we are manipulated both internally and externally, with and without intentional purpose. Our "reality" and "free will" are so much more an illusion than we realize. What's worse, it's almost impossible to change the way we're wired. I feel the woe of the tiger that, believing it's free, has just found the edge of the enclosure.
Thanks for your great review. I love it that you reference other books that compare, and their impact. Appreciate your write up. (I am in the middle of the book and am truly enjoying it, even though it is taking me a long time to complete.)
There were moments I wanted to shelve it, Maurya. I probably should return and re-read it. I have put a lot more thought into the reality that humans have two essential evolutionary "events" that define us: 1. Ability to perceive and react: This is the foundation of learning and avoiding repeated failure, or achieving repeated success.
2. Ability to manipulate item 1 in other people: Manipulation, rhetoric, persuasion,... whatever we call it, some first ancestor noted (s)he could induce behavior in others by playing on their perceptions, and the "evolutionary arms race" was on.
We are constantly striving to be aware of how we are being manipulated, at the same time the manipulator is finding new ways to pluck our strings.
Kahneman's insights could be used by "warriors" on both sides of the battle.
Hi Folboteur - thanks for your message. I have to say that I found the last third of this book to be extremely challenging to read, and if I were to re-read, which I probably will at some point, would just read up to that point. (I found that last third to be redundant.)Also wanted to share another book that I have recently read that you might really enjoy called Decisive by Heath & Heath. Cheers.
If human not designed for thinking (e.g cognitive biases , habits and emotions ) . Is thinking (e.g 22 ×13 = ?? ) a psychological virtue ?
disentanglement of heuristics-great stuff
its true this book takes me ages to finish but its worth it...i may say system 2 is me
I really appreciate all of your comment on some books i've not read. But from your sentence i could guess what they will bé. I AM looking forward to reading some of the books
I completely agree. I think this book should be a mandatory part of every children's education! Learning about our mind's reliance on heuristics which leads to subjective biases is crucial in today's world, especially considering the way politics has gone lately...
In total agreement. Finished Dennet, now reading Kahneman slow and slower.
I suppose if I decide to read this book, getting one from the library probably isn't a very good idea! LOL. Thank you for all of your commentary.
You should read Thaler's stuff like Nudge and Misbehaving. It's a bit of an easier read but no less rewarding. (And Malcom Gladwells stuff if you want a really easy read with good core concepts)
Thanks for the recommendation!
A difficult book to read but very compensating.
Curious to know how this book differs from Malcolm Gladwell’s take on the subject with his book, “Blink: The Power of Thinking Without Thinking”?
Mark wrote: "Curious to know how this book differs from Malcolm Gladwell’s take on the subject with his book, “Blink: The Power of Thinking Without Thinking”?"I can't comment on that specific relationship, but having read Gladwell's "Freakonomics" I can say his approach is substantially friendlier to a casual reader. Kahneman is thorough, encyclopedic.
Sharkygirl wrote: "I suppose if I decide to read this book, getting one from the library probably isn't a very good idea! LOL. Thank you for all of your commentary."ONly if they have a liberal "Checkout Extension" policy. :-)
Completely agree on the Mental Material Arts program. This is a much fluent read as an audiobook. So glad I didn't tackle this as a physical book, otherwise I wouldn't have gone through the first chapter.....
Could you please suggest few more books that might help us to understand the way we think (especially for decision making skills)? Thank-you in advance !
I have not read Dennett, but have read Kahenman, 3x, and completely agree with you on his book. It's been the gift that's kept on giving. I notice the fallacies he flags all the time. Just to name one example is the law of small numbers. I see conclusions invoked from test groups that are way too small to be definitive. The NYT Health section does this all the time, for example.
what a good review of a book I've been meaning to get round to. After seeing Kahneman walk through his theory in a documentary type show, really fascinating but I'm thinking the book has much more, so yep one I want to get round to reading. Thanks for review.
Sandip wrote: "Could you please suggest few more books that might help us to understand the way we think (especially for decision making skills)? Thank-you in advance !"Thank you, to all the commenters arriving here in 2019! I appreciate the feedback.
Sandip, I can't think of any books to recommend off the top of my head that meet your request. Perhaps Malcolm Gladwell books -- Outliers, or Freakonomics? Joshua Foer's "Moonwalking with Einstein" provides a fun and interesting look into human memory capacity and training.
Cheers!
Thanks for your time Sir! Will surely lay my hands on the books you suggested .
Behave by sapolski. Completely different style, long, humourless. Chablis & Simon invisible gorilla. Idiot brain (Burnett?)
Your review kept me slogging through and I'm glad I did, thanks!
Natalia wrote: "Your review kept me slogging through and I'm glad I did, thanks!"Glad it was useful! Your feedback inspires me to want to write more! Thanks.
im glad you finished it because i only had two books ever that i did not finish and it was one of them. i had the mistake to read it in the beach, didnt go very far. i just donated the book to our local library. im not sure if i did them a favor. hahah.
My second attempt in this book... quite hard going but will push through after reading your comments. And yes, really like the Outliers!
FOR ANYONE HAVING A HARD TIME GETTING THROUGH THESE KINDS OF BOOKS:I am an avid fiction reader. I love learning and I am fascinated by books like this one. However, they take a long time to get through, as do most books that contain very important and enlightening concepts.
Recently, I came across the Lucid app, it’s small and designed by about 3 people (based on what I can tell) they offer summarized chapters that you can read on your phone of non-fiction books including this one.
This was my first book I choose, and I’ve completed 5 chapters worth of summarized information in less than an hour.
Just an idea for anyone interested in an alternative.
I have been "slogging" through this book for months now. Your review has encouraged me to continue (I'm not the only one who thinks the book is not an easy read after all) I will certainly get through with it!
Rolen wrote: "... i had the mistake to read it in the beach, didnt go very far. i just donated the book to our local library. im not sure if i did them a favor. hahah "Now that raight thar is funny!
Lauren wrote: "FOR ANYONE HAVING A HARD TIME GETTING THROUGH THESE KINDS OF BOOKS:I am an avid fiction reader. I love learning and I am fascinated by books like this one. However, they take a long time to get t..."
Not a bad idea. I can't imagine having the job of synopsizing his work. EEK!
I’m 32 pages in and came back to goodreads to be sure I want to continue. You’ve convinced me to get back to the slog. Thank you.
Celeste wrote: "I’m 32 pages in and came back to goodreads to be sure I want to continue. You’ve convinced me to get back to the slog. Thank you."Well, with 400 more pages you have plenty of time to change your mind and hate me. :-) Good luck, and I hope it proves useful.
Great review, I thoroughly enjoyed the book as well - definitely took a while to get though as I had to really let the ideas settle in and wrap my head around them. One thing it left me wondering about is while we mostly respond the same way to the examples presented, not everyone does. What makes those brains different? What is different about their approach to life? I feel like that could be more instructive as to how to really think smarter (as he mentions it is nearly impossible to improve our ingrained ways). Do you know of any books that touch on or build off of this point?
I have found myself rereading an occasional sentence or two but look forward to this one